Don’t know why I feel the need to write this, but oh well.

So, it’s Winter Rush. I’m probably in my 5th year at GaTech (of 6… between changing majors, and doing a fair bit of co-op/interning, it took me a little while to escape with a degree), and it’s a quiet night. Randy and I are in my room just chilling, and it’s about 10:30 PM.

For some reason, I look over at Randy and say “You wanna go to Lookout Mountain?” (Note: Lookout Mountain is on the northwest side of Chattanooga, a good 2 hour drive from Atlanta).

Randy: “Why?”

“No reason.”

“Ok. Give me 30 minutes to go get my coat.”

That level of freedom is intoxicating. And it’s hard to replicate outside of College. So, Randy and I hop in his car, and we head north. After 2 hours of conversation about stuff, we make it to the top of lookout mountain, and park somewhere quasi-legally. We then walk around for a while, and go over a couple of low fences, and find a great overlook on to Chattanooga. Randy snaps a few photos, and we decide to head back to the car, not really sure what to do next.

Almost immediately after we clear the last fence (aka getting back into public property), we hear a voice yelling at us, trying to get our attention. Turns out to be a cop, asking if we’re trespassing (which we certainly had been, but not maliciously), and in general, seeing if we were up to anything.

Just to set the scene, it’s pretty cool on Lookout Mountain. Both Randy and I are bundled up in heavy coats, and we’ve both got our hands in our pockets.

We start to walk back towards the cop (who’s right beside Randy’s car), pretty nonchalantly. But there’s a car between us an the cop, and we walk around different sides of the car inadvertently. In retrospect, this wasn’t a good idea. From the cops perspective, we were splitting up to get a better ‘drop’ on him, and we could tell because he put his hand on his gun.

I hardly remember what we said to talk our way out of that, but eventually we convinced him we were just up there walking around (which we were) and that we hadn’t been trespassing (which we almost certainly were). The good news is that both Randy and I have a little bit of forethought, built off each other’s tale, keeping very close to the truth. This is very unlike some other fraternity brothers of mine who have NO sense of persuasion. Eventually he let us go without much hassle, and we drove straight back to Atlanta, rather than try to find something else to do, well after midnight, in Chattanooga.

But it was a good time.

Just don’t let the cops catch you.

Mark Spencer (aka the Internet Monk) has a series of interesting questions for Roman Catholics.

In this series of posts, I’ll attempt to answer some of these questions. These will also be posted in the comment box over at imonk.

The first question:

1) Do Roman Catholics consider Protestant ministers like myself valid ministers? More particularly, if a good friend becomes Roman Catholic, are they now confessionally required to believe that I was never called of God to be a minister?

I might be able to shed some light on some of these (ok, this is getting a lot longer than I thought. This post will tackle the first question. I’ll attempt to get to the rest later):

I believe this hinges on what you mean by ‘valid ministers’. The Catholic concept of Holy Orders brings with it several other things of note. The first would be the ability to be ministers of the sacraments, and the second would be the three ‘levels’ of holy orders (diaconate, priesthood, and bishopric).

Each ‘level’ can do different things. The Diaconate’s main job is ‘proclaiming of the word’. That is bringing the scriptures to the people by reading and preaching. They also may be ministers of the sacrament of marriage and baptism. Priests can do all the above, plus Reconciliation, Holy Communion, and Anointing of the Sick. Bishops may do all of the above, and in addition may confirm[1] and may be the minister of Holy Orders.

So, knowing all of this, we come back to the initial question: would a Protestant minister be a ‘valid minister’.

If by ‘valid minister’ you mean ‘partaking in the graces of Holy Orders’, then I believe the answer would have to be an emphatic ‘no’[2]. If by ‘valid minister’ you mean ‘Someone who preaches the word, and attempts to bring his/her fellow people to holiness’, then I believe the answer would be somewhere between ‘it depends’, and ‘yes’.

The Catholic Church has a long tradition of people being preachers who are outside the sacrament of Holy Orders. Should you ever run into a ‘brother’ or ‘friar’[3], you’re most likely not talking to someone who has Holy Orders, but someone who is trying to live a life of holiness, and bringing others to that life.

Should a Protestant minister convert to Catholicism, and show sufficient knowledge and fidelity to the teachings of Catholicism, it wouldn’t surprise me if they could be brought quickly into the Diaconate. Note: This would be a pastoral decision made by the local bishop, rather than a specific procedure/ruling from Rome. It would depend on many other factors as well.

So, the brief answer to the question is that a Protestant minister could be akin to a minister without Holy Orders within the Catholic Church.

[1] Priests may confirm when given direct permission from the Bishop for that instance of Confirmation.
[2] For the record, I’m leaving aside the more tangled questions of ministers from the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican/Episcopalian, and (some?) Lutheran traditions.
[3] Though ‘friar’ may be a more generic term for someone in a religious order, regardless of their ‘level’ in Holy Orders or lack there of.